Curse

Cab Tastic · Jul 21, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

HA isn't an easy place to get into. I think you have to be pretty determined if you want to have any amount of success here.

My journey to r3 was initially a struggle but I took steps to learn what builds were flavour of the day. For example when you stand around in HA you will see groups looking for SF ele or expel rit. You need to learn what these builds are and also learn how to use them.

I am surprised that there are not unranked groups forming. There certainly was when I used to play in HA. They generally used the latest gimmick build of the day( in my case heroway).

I could sometimes blag my way into ranked groups by messaging the group leader who was looking for a particular build by saying "i may not be rank x but i know the build well and have played it many times". Or something along those lines. Basically be friendly but try to come across as if you know what you are doing(Which i basically did, but was a bit rough round the edges).

Over a period of days you will naturally come to add some players as friends and may be called occasionally by pplayers while not even in HA to join groups.

So to sum up. Is it difficult to get into? YES.
Does it get easier? YES.
Is it worth it? Of course!

Dr Strangelove · Jul 21, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

Ok, I'll go PM that r14 and tell that person I want to be friends. I think he will understand.

Since you're so open-minded, I assume you take r3 Norn players you don't know into your Ursan groups all the time. Or perhaps you pick up that random wammo in DOA just because you hate discrimination so very much, because, you know, anything else would be hypocritical.

Rank really is secondary to finding groups for HA/GvG. The first and best way to find groups is to make friends. Go find a guild of other people who want to play. Don't be a douche and think the rank 10 guild is going to want you right away, they have a solid 8 players, they don't want more. Hang out in RA/TA/AB where nobody much cares about rank, if you're not a douchenozzle, you'll make friends who will play with you. Hell, hang around on the forums and make snide comments, even that will get you a group.

When people are spamming for a r6+ monk, they've already exhausted all their friends. If you're truly a good player and know decent builds, they'll likely take you no matter what your rank. They hate sitting around spamming as much as you do, as long as you're better than a hero monk, they won't care.

If you don't know good builds, hang around RA/TA/AB, read the forums, or watch observer mode. You'll pick it up fairly quickly. Remember, you're not a unique snowflake, if you think you're "a rank 1 who is just as good as a rank 10", you're probably not. Be social, be ready to learn, and don't be a douchebag.

Free Sigils · Jul 21, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

I can understand where you're coming from. Getting groups for HA is a catch 22.

I used to be frustrated by rank discrimination, then I actually learned how to play in HA and I finally understood why there is rank discrimination. It's unfortunate, but it does happen. I got to my r3 mostly by monking for no rank pugs. It was slow, it was not easy, sometimes it was a little frustrating. It was amazing if I ever got more than 2 fame in a single run.

Once you have a visible rank, it starts getting a little easier to join groups, even if they're still not very good. But, see, what you can earn from this is, if you're decent, other decent people will start adding you to their friends list. This is how people ALL people started getting rank. You know other people. And in some cases, you know other people who know other people. I got to r5 by getting invited to a group by knowing someone who knew someone who needed another player and I ended up being decent enough that I became a regular in their groups. This led to me meeting other decent people who thought I was decent. A couple of times I was invited into r9+ groups as r3, simply because I knew people. See where that goes?

If you tried, instead of getting frustrated and all flamey about it, maybe you could put yourself into a better position to earn some rank because good people DO still exist. My boyfriend and I are higher ranked than everybody else in my guild. The great majority of my guild have never even stepped foot in HA. They don't know how to kite, they don't understand anything about tactics, they have no idea what to do on what maps. We're taking the time to teach them some of the basics so that we can take them HAing with us so we can start showing them the ropes. I am quite positive there are other guilds that do the same, as I have NEVER ONCE been in a guild that wasn't willing to help me learn and bring me along. Part of that reason is because I was not whiny and disrespectful, I was willing to learn, and I listened to what I was told because I knew that they had more experience than I did.

People who discriminate with a poor attitude are just as bad as the people who outright label anybody with rank as being those kind of PvPers. There's several of the latter in this thread, I hope you can see your hypocrisy.

Congradulations on winning the internet.

Seriously. Everything she said there is 100% true and describes how 90% (Real Statistic) of HA players got to where they are today. You just gotta suck it up and carry on, or QQ and scrub out. Just like Boot Camp.

Taurucis · Jul 21, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrant rex

Taurucis , if you put the same effort into making groups as you do crying on these forums you'd be a success in no time.

I don't even play Guild Wars any more, it doesn't really matter to me any more. What's irritating is all the stuck-up jerks thinking they're better people somehow because they have an orange animal sticking out of their chest.

Quote:

Seriously. Everything she said there is 100% true and describes how 90% (Real Statistic) of HA players got to where they are today. You just gotta suck it up and carry on, or QQ and scrub out. Just like Boot Camp.

Boot camp is one of the best places to go for physical and verbal abuse, there is really no reason anyone should slog through that for whatever pitiful rewards lie ahead. Just like HA, except there is more verbal abuse and less physical abuse.

It's not scrubbing out, it's called being smart.

Dr Strangelove · Jul 21, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

I don't even play Guild Wars any more, it doesn't really matter to me any more. What's irritating is all the stuck-up jerks thinking they're better people somehow because they have an orange animal sticking out of their chest.

Most people can separate their skills as a player from their value as a person. If you can't, that's nobody's fault but your own. Also, as has been said before, rank is a last-resort way to tell a good player from a bad one, not the first and only way you're judged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Boot camp is one of the best places to go for physical and verbal abuse, there is really no reason anyone should slog through that for whatever pitiful rewards lie ahead. Just like HA, except there is more verbal abuse and less physical abuse.

That's your choice. If you don't want to go through boot camp, don't join the army. If you don't want to become a better player, don't PvP.

Taurucis · Jul 21, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Most people can separate their skills as a player from their value as a person. If you can't, that's nobody's fault but your own. Also, as has been said before, rank is a last-resort way to tell a good player from a bad one, not the first and only way you're judged.

That's your choice. If you don't want to go through boot camp, don't join the army. If you don't want to become a better player, don't PvP.

I'm talking about those idiots who troll in GToB flashing their rank and saying "lolnoob" once a second.

The thing is, in HA rank is the first way a player is judged.

I know a guy who has rarely, if ever, touched PvP, yet he's really good at Guild Wars. In fact I know quite a few of them.

Snow Bunny · Jul 21, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

That's your choice. If you don't want to go through boot camp, don't join the army. If you don't want to become a better player, don't PvP.

I agree Strangelove.

The problem is that most people entering PvP and complaining about its difficulty curve aren't doing PvP to play it as Player vs. Player. Most do it for the title or for the quick gratification of winning.

If you wanted to PvP for the sake of enjoying PvP, you'd take your friends with you and you guys would be relaxed about it and not really care if you lose.

However, as many posts on this forum have come to confirm, I believe that most people who complain about the inaccessibility of organized PvP are largely PvPing for the /rank emote or some silly title. Just like people in Sardelac complaining that Champion and Hero should be made easier to obtain for the HoM. I mean, are you people serious?

People don't realize that hundreds bordering on thousands of players have worked for that shiny animal, and have put in a lot of effort into getting that little title under their name.

Unlike raptor farming, PvP's attitude towards instant gratification is "lolno" Get used to that.

MithranArkanere · Jul 21, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Rank? You mean Hero rank?
Yeah!
The higher the rank of an account, the higer the chances of that player gloating around, bothering people in outposts.
Since the addition of the ability to show titles, the rank emote should work only in explorables, arenas and guild halls.

Dr Strangelove · Jul 21, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

However, as many posts on this forum have come to confirm, I believe that most people who complain about the inaccessibility of organized PvP are largely PvPing for the /rank emote or some silly title. Just like people in Sardelac complaining that Champion and Hero should be made easier to obtain for the HoM. I mean, are you people serious?

I think this has a lot to do with the mentality of players who tend to stay in PvE vs. those who tend towards PvP. As GW has aged, most PvE players aren't out there for the challenge anymore, they're there to chase some reward, be it titles or shiny loot. With enough time, they'll almost certainly get that reward.

Most PvP players aren't there for the silly animal bursting out of their chest, they're there to play a fun and challenging game. The titles and such are just a neat afterthought, like looking at your stats after a match in an FPS.

All of that is fine until the two groups mix. PvE players get pissed because PvP is not conducive to title farming. There really isn't an easy task you can do over and over until you get the carrot at the end of the stick. If you're new and want nothing but that carrot, PvP seems impossibly elitist and boring. By contrast, PvP-oriented players have a lot of disdain for what PvE has become. Crap like ursan completely removes the challenge part of the game that drives them, leaving nothing but the carrot at the end of stick.

If you want proof of this, go take a look at any skill balance thread. A hefty chunk of PvE players justify overpowered skills by saying "they let them get stuff done". The other half of the playerbase doesn't understand this fixation on rewards, and talks about game balance and challenge. However, since both sides have completely different goals, nobody ends up agreeing on anything.

Off topic, your posts are a nightmare to quote with all the font bbcode

.

Aejorii · Jul 21, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

I know what he meant, but that's a bad suggestion when International District (the one that might have people in it) has nobody to group with except people that are looking for actual ranked people.

Oh man you sure are smrt.

Risus · Jul 21, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Way to gain fame at <r3. Make your own groups. Use builds in the meta. PvX.com helps you. But of course when I do that I rarely get past the 2nd match and the entire team quits and its back to a 40 min search for more players... OH well, try it. It might work for you.

Free Sigils · Jul 21, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

I'm talking about those idiots who troll in GToB flashing their rank and saying "lolnoob" once a second.

Those aren't PvPers, they are Pvers in wolf's (or tiger's) clothing.

Ate of DK · Jul 21, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Sigils

Those aren't PvPers, they are Pvers in wolf's (or tiger's) clothing.

/agree

They are PvE players who played too many double fame weekends and spend quite some money on their Olias' and Master of Whisper' equipment just to get that flashy tiger.

To be honest, in my guild almost nobody knows how much fame each other has. We also don't know how much fame our guests have. We know that we can play effective and have good playing friends as well. That is all that counts. We play for fun and wait for the day that we finally see a mini-ghostly drop from the stupid chest.

Zahr Dalsk · Jul 21, 2008, 09:18 PM // 21:18

I don't care about titles, rank, etc, and when someone flashes a hero rank or zaishen rank, I laugh at them. Good fun

Spazzer · Jul 21, 2008, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothlorian Sassun

HA has had rank discrimination 1 month after HA was invented.

Not a true statement.

Rank descrimination started in mid-to-late '05, after the change in fame to grant it to players after the first win rather than after the second.

Originally, you could only win fame after winning the first of the 6-team maps, so pretty much nobody had any rank.

Following this update, a few months later the IWAY fad opened the doors to players who did not have a normal group to run with. This originally ended the first spurt of rank descrimination that began to start in July. IWAY's swift popularity in september and october led to even more rank descrimination from heavy IWAY users in early '06.

The more common a rank is, the less it's worth. For instance, having Champion ranks is not a requirement to get into a pugvg match. Anet created this monster, and has nurtured it into what you see today.

Trylo · Jul 21, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

it doesnt mean much to me. good players can adapt to situations. im still r3 or r4 or something like that, ive won halls, been in the [ KeYs ] alliance, played top HA matches... and been complimented on my play by r10+

if they give you a chance and you dont suck, theyll usually give you another...

Kanyatta · Jul 21, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyJ

I'm sorry but I just have to LOL at this.
It is true that an unranked person isn't going to know how every map works, just like ranked people can't take a few hours to step away from their fancy emotes to actually help out a new person.

Why would a person take hours away from their own life to "help" a stranger over the interbutts? Seriously, you can play GW and not HA and still have fun. HA is one of the worst parts about the game, imo, right next to Hero Battles.

Simple solution that's worked for me for almost 3 years: Don't play HA

Cale Roughstar · Jul 21, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Do I care about rank? No.
Do I care about skill? Yes.
Is rank an indicator of skill? Usually.

The reason most rank discrimination goes on is that often rank does reflect skill. It is rare to find the r1 who is good as the r10, because even if the r1 can interrupt, infuse, prot or spike as well as the r10, the r10 has the advantage of experience, and knowing is half the battle. (Okay not really half but you get the idea).

That is why I would even encourage new players to play Flavour of the Month builds, to gain the experience to succede at the next level. If you know nothing about cap points or relic runs, how can you expect to play balanced or r-spike and get anywhere. Learn the builds, learn the maps, learn who to learn from, and most important of all, make friends.

Bowstring Badass · Jul 21, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Rank to me = higher balth cap and something to grind for outside of PvE when I get bored.

Also cale nice on the gi joe reference.

Stockholm · Jul 21, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Rank means that if you flash it in a pug I'm leading your KICKED.